What can a sabbatical teach you about retirement? Learn how creating more margin today can help you build a richer life before retirement.
Episode Summary
What if retirement isn’t something you should wait decades to experience?
In this episode of Scripted Wealth, Tim & Tim reflect on their experiences taking extended sabbaticals and explore what those experiences revealed about retirement, work, identity, relationships, and financial planning. Rather than viewing retirement as a finish line, they discuss how creating more margin, rest, and intentionality throughout life can lead to greater fulfillment today while also preparing for tomorrow.
Along the way, they unpack the emotional side of stepping away from work, why many high achievers struggle to slow down, and practical ways anyone can begin adopting a “sabbatical mindset”—even without taking an entire month off.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- Why retirement is about much more than reaching a financial number.
- How a sabbatical provides a valuable “test drive” for retirement.
- The surprising benefits of creating more margin, rest, and reflection before burnout happens.
- Practical ways to build a sabbatical mindset—even if taking a month off isn’t realistic.
- Why some of the richest retirement experiences have little to do with money and everything to do with relationships and intentional living.
Mentioned in Today’s Episode
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] In a world that is onto the next things, we just don’t make a lot of space for ourself just to take a breath and, like, reflect. And I think that’s the beautiful thing of a sabbatical. It’s same thing with, like, financial. Like, if you are, you know, hand-to-mouth trying to make ends meet, bills, you just don’t have a lot from a brain capacity perspective.
Like, you’re not doing a lot of dreaming unfortunately, because you’re just so preoccupied with survival. I think to extrapolate that further, like, if you are kind of hand-to-mouth from a time and scheduling things and just piling… Like, there’s not a whole lot of room for self-reflection and, like, where am I at in the universe, and I think that’s the beauty of a sabbatical.
You can, you can figure it out Tim, I’m coming off a one-month, uh, sabbatical, and thought we could talk about this idea of developing a sabbatical mindset before retirement, not just something that we delay into the future. And I’m not quite sure where the [00:01:00] conversation’s, uh, gonna go, but I’m really looking forward to it, because you took a one-month sabbatical, uh, five years ago.
You’re getting ready to take another one, uh, here in the fall for, for two months, and so we’ll talk about that as well. But there’s something different about taking an extended period of time off than there is just a, a week or two of, of vacation. And so, uh, look- looking forward to the conversation, and, uh, we’ll, we’ll see where it goes and how it fits into the financial plan.
Yeah. We, we really haven’t debriefed much since you’ve been back, so this is gonna be kind of a, a good conversation. I’m, I’m kind of very interested to see how, how you viewed your experience, and ’cause you’re fresh off it. And I’m kind of… I’ve done one, like you said, five years ago, and I’m about ready to do another one, and, uh, I think it’ll be a good conversation.
Let, let’s set the stage, uh, just so people understand what… I mean, that term is thrown, uh, around a lot, and I actually did a little bit of research into the history of sabbaticals. Because my, my experience [00:02:00] being in academia, um, is that you would have tenured professors that have been with the university for maybe 20, 30 years.
Uh, and they would finally get to this period of time where they get to take a sabbatical, and they’d go away for, like, a year. Uh, or, you know, it could be a semester or longer. And at least in my experiences, that’s a little bit different than what we’re talking about, ’cause often those faculty members would still go off and be doing work, but they would be exploring work kind of on their own terms.
They might go to another university and do research, or they might travel internationally and do some scholarship work. Certainly at a different pace. Uh, but what we’re talking about here is r- is really a period of time that is just completely unplugged. Uh, so I took a month. You’ve taken a month before.
You’re taking two months. Um, and in addition to the academic space, I have, uh, some friends that are in pastoral work, which is the other area that I commonly hear about this. Yeah. Where, you know, after seven, eight, nine, 10 years working [00:03:00] at a church or a place of worship, somebody might have off for two months, three months, um, really to kind of rest, reset, and, and hopefully come back.
Uh, not, not to leave the institution. Hopefully to come back with some reinvigoration of, of the type of work that they’re doing. And we have had this as a benefit for our team members at YFP for what? Seven, eight year- I mean, really since the beginning, right? Yeah, I think, I think since we, um, since we developed our team handbook and our, our benefits and things like that, I think it’s been, it’s been alway- always been there.
So, um, you know, it was a couple years until I took my first one and then, and then, uh, Kim, who- who’s a planner on our team, took one and, and now you. So, um, but I, I just thought it was important. You know, there’s… I, I feel like it’s one of those things, like, it’s like having kids, Tim. It’s like there’s never a good time to, to do it, right?
Um, but I think there are so many benefits both for yourself and [00:04:00] for others, for the team, um, to, to actually go through it. And I just thought it was really important for, for me to model that because I think if I didn’t do it, then it would be harder for… You know, it’s kinda like an unlimited vacation policy.
If you have an unlimited vacation policy, it sounds great, but if your leadership is not taking time off, then it almost has like the, the, the opposite, you know, effect of people taking no time at all. Right. Um, so yeah, it’s been around with, for us for a while and we’ve had, you know, um, three instances now of, of people using it, and I’m about to be the f- the fourth, you know, repeat offender, so to speak.
Um, but yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s awesome and it’s, I think it’s, it’s often one of the things that catches people’s, um, like, attention, you know, when, when we talk about it Yeah, and just for context, you know, what we do here at YFP is, uh, after five years, it’s, it’s one month off, uh, and then we do a financial stipend alongside of that.
So, uh, some- they’re st- still on [00:05:00] payroll, so still getting paid, uh, throughout the sabbatical, and then there’s a financial stipend on top of that. And then at 10 years, which is the one you’re getting ready to go on, uh, it’s two months off and then a larger stipend. So I wanna make sure people understand that context, ’cause as we talk through our own experiences, um, you know, we’re, we’re not, we’re not not getting paid for a month, right?
Uh, plus there’s a little bit of budget on top of that, uh, for some of the experiences that we might, might be going on as well. Ta- talk a little bit more. When, when you and I sat down, um, you know, probably almost 10 years ago now, and we were developing our handbook and just starting to build out our team, looking at how we would do, uh, leave and time off, we do have an unlimited, uh, PTO policy, but we felt like even in a virtual work environment that has more flexibility, we, we felt like this one month off or two months off after, after 10 years was an important part, not only in terms of recruitment and retaining our, our team members, but also just to the culture [00:06:00] of what we wanted, uh, to build.
And one thing that always sticks with me, Tim, as you, you’ve said before, like, this is a marathon, not a sprint, right? The work that we’re doing. So just curious to hear kind of your, your philosophy. I know this is something you were really passionate about when we first developed it. Yeah. So, you know, I think, I think if I think about my, my life and growing up, you know, maybe stems back to, I don’t know, maybe I was, like, 10 years old, and, and this wasn’t necessarily a sabbatical, but, like, my dad worked for the same company his whole career, you know, before he went, you know, during the Vietnam War and then afterwards and, you know, went to college.
And, um, so because he stayed at the company for so long, he just had a good amount of vacation that I thought at the time was just, like, crazy. So, like, one summer, I think when I was 10 years old, he had amassed, uh, enough vacation to take off, like, a, for a full month, which I had never heard of that. So, you know, um, my parents having, you know, [00:07:00] no, you know, camping or RV-ing experience thought that it was a good idea to throw three kids into a, you know, one of those old conversion vans, drive out west- Oh, yeah
and really, you know, we t- we did this month-long trip, um, kinda newbies from a camping perspective in this trail- travel trailer, and had my Super Nintendo all hooked up, and, you know, we, me and my brother had all the different jobs when we get to a, a campsite. And I just thought that, like, that, like- Like, like we, we made it type of thing.
Like it was so great for the five of us to be able to, you know, my mom’s a teacher so, um, you know, she had off during the summer, but you know, my, my dad had to take vacation. So I think it stems from that and like the ability to pull away from work and to have that experience. And then, you know, as I started my career, and I think a lot of pharmacists and people in healthcare can, can relate to this, I think, you know, burnout is a very [00:08:00] big thing.
And I don’t think it’s just the jobs. We talked about this a little bit before. It’s not just a job problem. It’s a me problem. It’s our client’s problem. It’s our community’s problem ’cause we have a hard time saying no. We’re overachievers. Maybe we’re perfectionists. Um, and then we can t- So into the profession to help, right?
Lots of- Yeah, yeah Yeah We wanna help people, and we feel like if we say no, you know, they’re, they’re, you know, are we gonna be judged or whatever. So there’s just a lot of like that goes into that. So it’s, it’s not just a job problem, although, you know, I do believe that, you know- You know, uh, work will take and take and take until there’s nothing left, right?
So like, I do think that setting up, you know, boundaries is an really important, I think, for a lot of especially younger pharmacists. It’s hard for them to say no. So, you know, I, I always say that, like, I feel like a lot of, like, corporate America and just, like, jobs in general, kind of you alluded to it, it’s like I- we’re running a marathon at a sprinter’s pace and it’s just not sustainable.
So like, there have been times in my life where I’m like, you know, it’s … And I, I just [00:09:00] envision, you know, um, I’m kind of on, I’m like the Wile E. Coyote and I’m, I’m running, I’m kind of chasing, you know, a carrot or the, the Roadrunner, and it’s just around the bend. It’s just around. I just got to, you know- Keep going.
Keep going. Mm-hmm … work the next six months at a 80-hour clip and I’m gonna get that promotion or I’m gonna get that raise or whatever. And it’s just not a great way to live life, right? And so I, I, I, I think I observed my own, you know, my own experience and reflected on that, and then family members, um, that have been really successful but maybe at the behest of health, family, things like that.
And then really our clients too. Um, and I just thought that this was really something important to do to, to be able to take a step back. So we talk about that. Like, I think one of the beauties of a financial planner is that, you know, you go and you go and you go, and you wake up and 10 years goes by and you, [00:10:00] and, and you, unless you’re really intentional about it, like, you don’t take the time to self-reflect and be like, “Is this what I wanna do?”
And I think a sabbatical in the same vein is like that, right? So you take a minute and figure out, like, where am I at in this universe? Like, am I doing the things that I want to do? Are there things that I’m not doing, you know? And what am I doing about it? So I just think i- it’s, again, it’s … We talk about this with family leave, so we do 12 weeks of paid family leave for, you know, um, baby and things like that.
Like, it, those are great benefits. Like, just like the sabbatical’s a great, great benefit. But in a small team it’s, like, like the team shoulder, like we shoulder it- Yeah … as the employers. But the team, the work still goes on. So it’s not, we’re not saying the work stops and we’re not saying, like, pay stops or anything like that.
It still goes on. But I think it forces you to, I think- Think of your job and [00:11:00] efficiency and like when I went on sabbatical, there were so many things that like I hadn’t really documented yet in the business that was just up here, and it forced me to do that. Because one of the things that I’m really proud of, and I, I, I’m sure you can attest to this a little bit being au- Like, you walk away for 30 days and like the earth still turns.
The clients are still being taken care of. Like, I’m running payroll when you’re not here, right? Like, it’s still, it happens. So like that’s a great feeling to be able to… You know, maybe some people are like, “Oh, that’s a terrible feeling,” because like, you know, especially if you work for someone else, maybe you feel expendable.
I don’t know. But for me, like one of the biggest things that I took away coming back was like, hey, like I’m im- I’m important to what we do at YFP, but, like, the, the show goes on, right? Amen. And, um, that’s a great feeling for something that you’ve built from scratch. Yeah, one of the things that I’ve been reflecting on a lot, Tim, is, you know, as the title suggests, developing a mo- a sabbatical mindset before retirement.
There, [00:12:00] there’s this trap that we can fall into, we’ve talked about on the show before if we’re not careful, just constant delayed gratification, right? Yeah. You know, we’re, we’re saving hard, aggressively. We’re working hard aggressively, 20, 30, 40 years. A- and we can have this somewhat unrealistic expectation that we’re just gonna wake up at 60 or 65 and boom, we’ve got this nest egg.
We’ve got three, four, $5 million saved, and no- and now we’re gonna live our rich life, right? Now, now it’s time to begin to do that. And I, I think probably a whole discussion that’s important around, like, why is that? Where does that come from? What are our l- what are our lived experiences? You know, probably watching our parents or grandparents go th- through a very traditional, you know, situation like that.
But one of the things I noticed is that being off for an entire month, or in your case, you’re gonna be off for two months, is so different than a week or even two weeks because it really forces you into some [00:13:00] rhythms that you start to get a sneak peek into those retirement years, right? A- and I think, you know, for anyone listening who’s thinking about early retirement, to me, this should be, like, a must-do.
Like, do- Like a dry, dry run. Yeah, do a dry run because, you know, there, there was… We did a ton of activities. You know, we spent two weeks touring, uh, Major League Baseball stadiums throughout the Midwest. It was incredible. You know, we went to Cincy, Cleveland, Chicago. Uh, did Wrigley. It was awesome, right? But we, we were on the go, on the go, on the go, uh, like you would a vacation.
A- and then we kinda settled into two weeks of, I don’t wanna say nothingness. We did a lot, but my, my family, uh, is in Buffalo, and we established kind of a new rhythm, a new routine. But there, there was almost this, like, detox period of a week or two weeks that normally doesn’t happen on a vacation. And then you settle into just some of the rhythms and routines that I started to see, like, oh, wow, like, in retirement, like, this could be really rich.
Like, [00:14:00] Jess and I are gonna have time to go work out together, to go read together, to go do these things that just normally in this phase of life, right, with kids or even a normal vacation of a week or two weeks, you just don’t see those things. And I know we talk a lot about this, of trying to visualize the future and, and putting yourselves into your, you know, your future self and, you know, what, what does that look like relationally?
What does that look like financially? Um, but that, that’s just hard to do, and I think there’s something really powerful about just being in it. Yeah, and I think, you know, I, I, I had the same kind of… And, and I don’t know if mine was en- entirely positive. I think it really… Like, when I went through the sabbatical five years ago, like I, I feel like I struggled.
Like, I struggled with, like, planning and, um, you know, like the feeling that I wasn’t getting, like, the most out of the time and, like, not wanting to, like, fritter it away. And, um, I feel like, I don’t know [00:15:00] if anxiety was the word, but I had anxiety about, like… And part of it, like, kind of it’s a joke with wh- and this isn’t something that you experience, but, like, I’m sure there’s retired couples that experience this, is, you know, Shay’s like, “Oh, that’s great you can do that, but, like, don’t do anything that I, I wanna do, too.”
She’s working, right? And then like- Yeah … yeah, ’cause she’s working, just like there’s some retired couples- Yeah … that, you know, one works and one retires, right? So, um, and I- she would admit that I’m a little bit more well traveled than she is, so, like if, you know, you know, if I’m like, “Oh, I wanna go here,” she doesn’t have the vacation time to go, then, like, I’m not gonna go.
Um, so you know, this, this coming, this coming, um, sabbatical, like, we have a trip to Brazil, um, to go to one of her cousin’s wedding, and then we have Berlin where she’s running a marathon and I’m, you know, number one cheerleader. But I think it, I think five years ago I probably would’ve, like, freaked out that, like, my calendar’s not full, and I’m kinda taking a, a page from, like, [00:16:00] our parenting phase of life where Shay wants to, like, add an ac- Like, “Hey, the kids need to do this camp and this camp,” and I’m like, “Can we not, like, fill every minute of the day with structured fun or structured- Mm
sports and just, like, be?” So, you know, this, like, the… You know, I’m taking mine, my sabbatical basically from Labor Day to Halloween, and it’s probably one of my favorite times of the year, Tim. Oh, that’s amazing. Because the weather’s starting to cool down, football season’s upon us, my birthday, uh, Olivia’s birthday.
You know, I have a wood-burning fireplace now in the backyard, and the swim spa which’ll be set at a nice warm temperature. Like, I think I’m just gonna, like, hang out and- That’s awesome … you know, at first, the first time I, I was thinking about, um, like a sabbatical, even way back in the day, I was like, “Oh, maybe I’ll just take the time to, like, just write and, like, work on my book,” and, like, that didn’t happen.
But, like, [00:17:00] writing for me is work, right? It- That’s not a sabbatical, yes … it would not be a sabbatical. So, like, I have abandoned that. But I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, I think with the second go-around, like, there’s certain things I wanna do. Like, I wanna do, like, a silent retreat or some type of retreat where I’m just going somewhere and, you know, I don’t hear three noisy kids and, you know, I just have some time to, you know, um, just chill and reset.
And I’ll probably do the Bourbon Trail either by myself or with my brother and, you know, do that. But, like, other than that and, you know, the, you know, the trips that we have to Brazil and Germany, like, I just think- I’m just gonna be, and I’m just gonna kinda let things go. You know, there’s some, there’s some projects that I wanna do around the house I just haven’t gotten to.
Yeah Like reorganize my closet and things like that, and, um, that are kinda in the back of my mind. But I think, I think first go around, I was just really anxious about that. And I think retirees or people that are thinking about retiring, so it was almost like a window into that. I- It’s kind of- Just was thinking about that.
Yeah. Yes. [00:18:00] Yeah. But it’s, it’s pretty crazy, and I don’t, I don’t know if you can comment on this, but like, it’s just so nuts how just, we talk about like kids being resilient, right? Like, how just whether they’re physically resilient, I’m definitely not as physically resilient as, as I was when I was a kid, but just like routine and emotion.
Like, I remember when I left my job, one of my jobs out of the Army, and then like I left, like I had been there for, I don’t know, four, four years. And it, I, it was like emotionally like devastating. I was like, I don’t know if I’m making the right… And like, I was emotional. And I know you kinda talked about this a little, uh, like Ohio State, like, like I don’t wanna say like you’re inconsequential, but like it just go, like it just moves on.
Like, life moves on. And that’s what like one of the conversations I had with like Shay with her job. She’s like, “Oh, the work I’m doing is really important,” blah, blah, blah. I’m like, “It is, but like- If you leave, [00:19:00] like, or if they fire you, it’s just, it’s just life goes on. And, and I guess what I’m trying to say is, uh, I- it’s almost like, you know, nothing…
I’m, I’m almost like a nihilist, like nothing matters. I’m not saying that, but like, you know, in that month, and I don’t know if you can attest to this, it was just like, it, it’s almost like, like you forget your schedule. It’s like retirees are like, “I don’t know how I even was able to work because I’m so busy,” or whatever it is.
And like, I, you know, I felt that a little bit as like, you know, you just fill, you fill the time, and hopefully it’s with things that have meaning for you, but maybe not. Like, you know, it’s okay just to be as well. And I think the longer that you’re in that, you know, I think there’s only so much lounging and chilling out, and then I, I wanna go do something, and, you know, whether that’s volunteer or travel or whatever it is.
But like, I, I just thought it, it, it’s kind of a commentary into like how adaptable we are, meaning if you subtract work, which is central, and we talk about this with pharmacists kind of work being a tr- a tr- a very [00:20:00] much an identity, you know, a role and identity kind of being interwoven. Um, but if you subtract that out, like you’ll figure it out.
Now again, we want to be intentional with that process, but you know, I, I thought that, and it’d be interesting to see, you know, double the sabbatical this time how I, how I, you know, we’ll have to check in on this conversation when I get back. But, you know, what was your impression? Like, were you worried about like the time off or like did, did it, did you feel like you kind of just seamlessly flowed?
I mean, you kind of had two phases of, hey, you’re running around to like, hey, you’re, you’re kind of establishing a, a different routine in Ba- um, in Buffalo. But what’s, what’s your thought on that? I think my preface to that answer is one of the things I thought a lot about on sabbatical is like we’re just in a lucky, not lucky, uh, just by design, but we’re, we’re in a unique position that we have each others as partners in the business.
Yeah. Right? So like, you know, think about people listening that maybe are a manager or a director or whatever. Like [00:21:00] we’re, we’re in a unique position where We don’t do the same task, but, like, we can walk away knowing that, like, the other person’s got it. Yeah. You know? And I think that allows for a lot of freedom and peace of mind, and probably an easier transition than, than would have been otherwise.
Um, I, I did notice, though, there, there, there almost was like– I described it as, like, a detox period. I, I think that so much of my day can run on adrenaline, like, from, right, getting up to kinda getting the morning routine stuff done to, um, obviously four, four kids at home, really active schedules all evening and coaching and we’re running in 30 directions and, you know, work from beginning of the day, end of the day.
Even though hours are, are– I feel like are in a really good spot of hours that we work. Like, it’s just, it’s a busy clip, right? It’s a busy pace. Um, and I think there’s, there’s an adrenaline to that, and probably some, some type of an ad- an addiction in the adrenaline or the pace of that. And when I think about, like, us [00:22:00] completely unplugging, and, and to your point, this is an interesting window into retirement, right?
Because we’re living one life and running one pace for many years, most of us, and then that is going to drastically change, right? So when I wake up and I’m 55 or 60, like assuming that I’m, I’m healthy and able to enjoy those years, like, what’s consuming most of my schedule today will look, will look very different.
That’s just a reality. Um, and so I think it was a really interesting window into that. But it took a while for that, like, adrenaline, I think, to just burn off. Um, and what I found was, like- Once that started to burn off, which I don’t think a traditional vacation gets to the time to really let that happen to the full degree, I found myself getting to a space that I was much more present and kind of almost working through some of the boredom, um, and the restlessness that then it was almost like my eyes opened up to opportunities to [00:23:00] be creative, to play, to connect with Jess and the boys and do other things.
Like, I, I remember one moment in particular, Tim, we were at, um, we were at a hotel in Cleveland, and thankfully nobody else was in the pool ’cause we would’ve got kicked out for sure. Um, and we just came up with this game in the pool where essentially it was like the equivalent of kill, kill the man with the ball.
Uh- Classic … it was me and the f- me and the four boys. Two, two– We were playing kind of the, the long way of the pool, two on each end, and our youngest, Benny, so he wouldn’t get mauled by his brothers, we, we put him in the middle as like the neutral man on both teams. And so you had to pass it back and forth, and he was like your neutral outlet.
I mean, and it was just like all-out physical contact play for 45 minutes, an hour, and we played it, you know, a couple days in a row. But, like, I, I think too often I don’t get to that level of presence and play because the, just the pace of the day, right? It’s just kinda going, you know, so much, and it takes a while to get to a place where you, like, really slow down alm- almost to, like, see the [00:24:00] opportunities that are there- Yeah
you know, in front of me. And- So if you were to drop that same scenario into, like, a week-long vacation, you, you would maybe, like you were saying, that you’d maybe, like, decline being in that moment, like roughhousing and everything because of just maybe not blinders, but, like, the– Like, you, you, you have it unwound, unwound to the point of, like, where you not feel comfortable, but, like, you would wanna do that, um, on, like, a week-long vacation.
Is that kind of the gist of what you’re saying? I think it just takes longer for me to get there. Like, there might be a two, two to three-day off-ramp, and then I’m kinda starting to think about it on the, on the backside coming back. And so, like, certainly vacation, you know, has a lot of play, but I just felt like it w- it was almost as if, another way to describe it is, like, everything was slowing down.
Like the connection, you know, the boys, just the… I remember several days when we were in Buffalo, it was like Jess and I kind of established this routine where we were up early talking with my parents, and we’d go for a walk, and then we would work out. We’d have coffee [00:25:00] together. You know, the boys would kinda do their own thing.
We did some, uh, Jess and my mom were working on a puzzle throughout the week, and like, it was 1:00 after lunch where we, like, started the day. And I was like mo- most days at home, like 1:00, I’ve, like, hit my wall. Everything started to slow down a little bit, like relationally, experience, and, and, um, I, I thought that was a really interesting window into…
Like, it, it got me really excited about retirement because, um- Wow. Mine had the opposite effect. I, I was… It freaked me out about retirement. Really? Interesting. Yeah, and I don’t, I think it’s because I just put all these expectations, and then you know, in retrospect even so, like I saw, like, what Kim did, and she was climbing every mountain- Oh my gosh
and every- And I’m like, “Man, did I, am I sabbaticaling wrong?” ‘Cause she would just do it to the Nth degree. But I think it’s just like- Different … the freaking financial plan. Like, it just depends on, like, what, where you’re at in life and, like, what- Yeah … what it is, right? Like, it’s, there’s no wrong, but I think it’s with intention is [00:26:00] what we, we, we try to s- It’s interesting you say that, like, excited about retirement, where I was more, like, freaking out about it.
Um- But isn’t it interesting? Isn’t it interesting? ‘Cause I felt a little bit of this pressure with the planning, and actually our plan evolved several times. ‘Cause I, I think it started with a very grand, like we were gonna do Europe and do some other things, and then Jess and I started talking about like, uh, let’s, let’s talk about the reality of the day, right?
So, like, I think the boys would be up for that, and they’re at good ages, but, like, they wanna swim at the hotel pool. That’s what they wanna do. Like, I don’t know if they’re gonna, like, really appreciate Europe and do the things in the way that we think. And so we started to evolve and adjust it, and then I felt like finally we were being a little bit more honest with ourselves of less of, like, the ideal of what this should be and more of like what do we want, right?
Which again, s- so many connections to the financial plan, like as you’re talking about. But isn’t it interesting that we feel this pressure, pressure to, like, sabbatical right? Like, that alone is kind of- Where does that even come from? Yeah. Right. [00:27:00] But, but is that not also true with retire- Like, there’s a right, quote, “right way” to do retirement.
Like, well, that’s interesting. Where does that come from? Right. Yeah, I, you know, it’s, it’s funny though too because, like, what you experienced with kind of you and Jess, and, like, I didn’t experience that because Shay was still going. Like, so it was… it’s very different in that regard. Which again, I think is, that’s real world, right?
Like, my parents retired five years apart or something like that. So, like, my dad was retired and my mom was still going to work, and Shay and I are five years, you know, in difference in age. I think the other thing that’s important to remember is, like, 40% of people don’t retire when they want. They retire earlier because of a health issue or, you know, they have to take care of a family member.
So I think, like, your… both of our situations are very, like, they’re very realistic in terms of, like, if you apply it to, like, real world, like for- Yeah … like a retirement scenario. Um, and I think both of, like, the emotions and the feelings that we’ve [00:28:00] experienced also apply, um, in that case. And, you know, I, I do think that you’re talk- like what you were saying about early…
Like, there, I think there’s this, I think there is this feeling or notion about retirement that maybe you had a window in more so than I did. I was kind of like, “Oh my,” like, oh, I just, I was, like, freaking out and just getting more anxiety about it. Um, I think partly because of, like, just these expectations that I don’t know where they- Yeah
come from. Um, and also partly because, like, I felt like I wa- I didn’t have my person, like I didn’t have Shay, and I- Sure … I was just, as you, as you were talking about them, like, oh man, like, like- Like starting the day without an alarm clock, and coffee, and exercise, and, you know, making lunch or even like grilling something.
Like, I would just kind of putting myself in that situation, like, like with my two-month sabbatical in terms of like I’m just gonna smoke some brisket or, or, you know, get on the flat top and do like cooking and we can kinda do meals together, which now it’s almost like, you [00:29:00] know, we s- we’ve restarted the home chef or whatever because it’s just like we, we, we have three kids, we have a million activities, we gotta get food on the table- My gosh, yeah
to shop and to, you know, meal plan. And it’s just, it’s so hectic right now. Yeah. Right? And I think, you know, what you were describing was like, man, just a, a, like a more… Not that it’s bad right now, but a more optimal pace to just live- Yeah … and eat and spend time and exercise versus like I gotta get this work out, workout in and then get back to the office, and I gotta get to this, you know, drop one kid off, pick up the other one.
It’s just so much right now. Yeah, the pace. And you know what? Shay and I, we have a, I’ll call it a very healthy debate about s- like, like the kids’ activities right now because she’s definitely like pile on, pile on, and I’m just like we’re at capacity. And, you know, the conversation that we had, um, at date night this weekend was…
Look, you know, I’ve, [00:30:00] I’ve, I’ve kinda been on record as like swim is a great sport. I know you grew up in a swim family. Yeah. But, like much like we were talking about, like these benefits are like they’re like a team benefit because like when somebody goes on sabbatical, you know, the, the work goes on- Mm-hmm
a team has to pick up the slack. Like, swim is a, it’s a family commitment, right? Because- Oh, for sure. Yeah … we have two kids in swim. They’re every other, so Monday one kid has one, then Tuesday it’s the other kid. It’s seven days a week. Um, it’s weekends. We have a young daughter, but what, the, the point I’m making here is, is, you know, am I gonna wake up and it’s like, mom, like life is so hectic.
Am I gonna wake up in 15 years and be like, “Man, I miss that,” or am I gonna be like, “That was a hectic time,” and like I’m kinda glad that over, glad it’s over? And it’s probably gonna be a little bit of both, to be honest. Probably agree. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. But like, I don’t know. I, I just think that to, to bring it back to the sabbatical, like- There is no [00:31:00] right or wrong with any of this stuff.
In a world that is on to the next thing, swipe left, swipe right, you know, screens, scheduling, hi- like, we, we, we just don’t make, we just don’t make a lot of space for ourself just to take a breath and, like, reflect. And I think that’s the beautiful thing of a sabbatical, and I think, like, you know, it’s, it’s same thing with, like, financial.
Like, if you are, you know, hand-to-mouth trying to make ends meet, bills, you just don’t have a lot. Like, y- you know, from a brain capacity perspective, like, you’re not doing a lot of dreaming unfortunately, because you’re just so preoccupied with survival. I think to extrapolate that further, like, if you are kind of hand-to-mouth from a time and scheduling things and just piling, like, there’s not a whole lot of room for self-reflection and, like, where am I at in the universe, and I think that’s the beauty of a sabbatical if you can, you can figure it out.
Um, you know, in between my careers in logistics and financial [00:32:00] services, I, I was off, I was out of work for nine months just to kind of figure out what I wanted to do, so that was kind of my first… I don’t know if you’d call that a sabbatical. Um, but that was my first foray into being like, “Man, I, there’s some things personally that I need to change,” but just also it was, like, a reflective period of, like, what is my next move?
And I think that’s where you have the most, most growth. Now again, then I wasn’t, like, working or, or, um, making any money, so there was a different type of stress. Whereas, like, with this type of sabbatical, you’re still getting paid and benefits and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I guess the point I’m trying to me- make in a, in a long roundabout way is, like, just having that space to make sure that you’re int- intentional with the choices that you’re making and not just kind of checking off the next box or going on to the next thing.
You know, it, it’s, it’s just really important to, to have that And one of the things we also found out, I’d be curious to hear, you know, if you feel the same way, ’cause I think our, our [00:33:00] situations are, are just different. And to your point, like, there is no, there is no right, you know? And I think that’s part of the whole challenge here is, like, f- finding what, what works, you know, for you individually.
But for us, it was so important for us to get out of our space. You know, Jess, Jess and I, I think often feel a little bit of burnout with, you know, she’s homeschooling the boys or has homeschooled our boys. Our oldest is going into school, uh, this year. It’s freshman year. Um, but she’ll still be homeschooling our other three.
Uh, h- home all day, right? We spend a lot of time together. I was working from home predominantly. I haven’t been as much over the last, you know, nine months or so. Um, but it was really important. For, for me, home, as much as I love home, uh, it can also become a reminder of, like, all the tasks that need to get done.
Uh, and it was so helpful to, like, completely unplug out of that, both from that task home type of environment, but also, like, to your point about the pace of activities. You know, we, we knew this. Like, we knew we were over-activitied, if that, if that’s a term. But, like, this was confirmation [00:34:00] of that for us.
Like, it was just so nice. But it also took a ton of work to, like, unplug, and I think we had to get over some stuff. Like, you know, we tried to pick the window of time. Like, for us, in this July window, we’re between, for the most part, uh, spring sports and fall sports. Um, but we had to, you know, our, our third son, Levi, like, we had to pull him out of baseball for the last 10 days.
He didn’t finish. Now, we communicated that six months in advance, but, like, you know, that, that was part of the reality of trying to make this happen. Our oldest, Sam, who’s gonna be trying to go out for the basketball team, like, open gyms all summer, like, things that he was gonna be missing that was, like, a little bit of FOMO, right?
Of, like, you know, that. And obviously, as they get older, like, they’ve got friends they wanna be around, and so, like, you’re kinda negotiating that of being a month away. So, I don’t know if there is a right time, but for us, it was really important to, like, really get away. Like, we had to be out of our, out of our environment, which I think helped us get to a place of just being more [00:35:00] present a little bit faster.
I think if we would’ve been home, um, that would’ve been more challenging. But I don’t know. May- maybe that doesn’t resonate with you. Maybe it’s just, it’s just different. Yeah, it does and it doesn’t. Like, you know, when I started Script Financial in 2015, 2016, like, I, I’ve been working from home. But I, I, I, you know, since then, you know, obviously before COVID.
But, like, I recognized very early in my, in my career, um, or in, in this, in this role that, like, I needed separation of church and state. I needed separation- Yeah … of, like, work and home. So, you know, very early in my, you know, the, the earliest, you know, I would be working out of, like, my bedroom in my apartment, um, or I’d have an, a separate office.
But, like- Like for me, that equated to like work never stopping. Like I was always working around the clock or, oh, let me just check some email and catch up on some email [00:36:00] at midnight or whatever. Like, and, and so like I needed to, you know, even if it was right down the street, which, you know, um, fortunately, you know, the longest commute that I’ve had, you know, since I’ve, we’ve had office space is like seven minutes, you know, which is awesome.
You know, I, you know, when I worked in the LA area, sometimes it’d take me two hours to get to work, and that just, that sucks. So, um, so like it does and it doesn’t in a sense that like I’ve always kind of had that. You know, I’m, I’m kinda looking at really my, my home as more of a, like, okay, let me look at my house as like, these are some things that even on the weekends I can’t get to, or like, you know, some of those projects that I’ve been talking about that I’m excited to kind of get done, um, to kind of make- Yeah
make the space a little bit more optimized. I think one of the conversations that I’ve had at the last sabbatical and this one coming up is like, I think Sh- Shay’s first thought is like, “Oh, you’re gonna be home for a month or two in the summer? Like- [00:37:00] Free daycare, and I’m like, “That’s not happening.” Like, I’m not here to just be an extension.
I love my kids, but like, you know, we’re still gonna have a summer nanny and Zoe’s still gonna go to daycare because I want to… The ability to go and, you know, do stuff. Um, so that was something that I had to draw kind of like a boundary around and, um, or, you know, my wife would take the opportunity to save, save some dollars.
But like, to me, like, that wouldn’t… That’s not the purpose of a sabbatical because, you know, you’re just, you know, you’re just doing work, that different type of work. Not that, you know, I don’t like taking, take, taking, uh, care of my kids. But, um, you know, I think, I think for, for us too, like when I was thinking about, you know, talking about timing, um, you know, I was thinking about, you know, taking all of basically June and July, but the thing that I forgot is, again, going back to swim, is like in the summertime it’s like the ki- it’s almost like school.
The kids, like, the kids are like, “Hey, [00:38:00] can we watch a movie tonight?” And it’s like, “No, you gotta go to bed because you have swim at 7:00 in the morning.” And then, you know, my oldest has swim that, you know, at nights too, because she does, she does morning, she does club at night. So it was o- it w- basically the last week or so we’re like through the summer swims, and now we have a break.
Um, but like they’re, that, you know, being out, activities, we talked about that. Like the, the f- the front part of the summer is dominated by that, and then I would kinda be working around that. So, um, yeah, like I, like I said, I think, I think those… Again, I think it goes back to intention and, and, you know, setting ground rules.
I think for me, you know, I’m walking into this a lot, with a lot less of like, “Hey, I… You know, on this day I’m doing this,” or, “I’m, at this hour I’m doing this,” and more like there’s like mile markers through it. But like, you know, like I just mentioned, I had to set up some ground rules with my wife, being like, “I’m not free daycare.”
Like, I’m not… Like that, that’s not the purpose of me being off. Um, because especially like our [00:39:00] youngest, Zoe, she’s probably the most difficult o- out of the three, and she would just be bossing me around for two months, right? So, um- Maybe you would need a sabbatical after your sabbatical. I would need a sabbatical after that.
Exactly right. So, um- I do think two months though, Tim, is different, right? Because like- I, I, I’d be curious to just– We, we should do this again when you get back, but I think with a two-month window, there’s an– there’s, there’s more margin where you can have the experiences, right? You guys are doing the international trip.
You talked about the Bourbon Trail, time with your brother, like maybe a silent re- Yeah. You can do those, and that’s not the whole time. Like there, there could also be the space for like, “Hey, I’d love to get a home project done, you know, that I wasn’t gonna, you know, get done otherwise.” So, um, you know, I could see where the time that’s available, you know, could be very different.
Let, let me hear your thoughts on this. Jess and I were talking about this when we were walking the other night of like, naturally the question is, you know, would we do it again, like next summer? Would, would we take a month off? And we started to talk through all the logistics, right? Kids’ schedules. Uh, next summer I’ve got a [00:40:00] 16-year-old that might, might start driving, and like does he really wanna be hanging out with mom and dad when he’s got the keys to, to a car?
And, um, you know, all the things. Uh, maybe a summer job that’s now in the mix, right? So I think we quickly got to this point of like, maybe it doesn’t work anymore, like after this point. And then we got to the other side of the coin a little like maybe that is the point, to like make it work, right? And to kind of fight against all of these objections for why it’s not possible.
It’s like may- maybe that’s the point. Like you’ve gotta kinda work hard to pave the way to like have the experience, and it doesn’t come like free. Like there, there’s a, there’s a cost on some level, right? To trying to figure all that out. But it does feel like it’s going to get more challenging. Yeah, and, you know, you’re probably entering that window in– of time where, um-
It’s, it’s more challenging because, like, your kids are entering that, that [00:41:00] stage of life where they’re trying to figure out things for themselves. Now- Right … they’ll, they’ll eventually come back. You know, you might get to a point in life where like, “Hey, um, you know, I’m, I’m renting a beach house for a couple weeks and, you know, just come with your families.”
You know, like free vacation type of thing. They’re like, they’re, they’ll be all about that, right? Um, but right now where they’re going is like, “Hey, mom and dad aren’t cool. I wanna spend time with my friends,” or maybe a sport’s taking off or whatever. And, you know, I, you know, I think that was the selling point when we bought our motor home was, um, you know, I told Shay, I’m like, “Hey, we can buy this real estate investment,” or, you know, our oldest, we have, I don’t know, at the time, eight more years where we’re cool, you know, and, and they’re gonna wanna do this.
And, like, that was kind of what pushed… You know, those were the heartstrings that I pulled to kind of push that over the edge. But if you, if you think of, if you think about this, again, we’re kind of like overlaying retirement. There are things that you can control, and there’s [00:42:00] things that you can’t control, right?
So I think about, you know, I, I think about where, you know, if you take the RV case where it’s like, hey, that would be s- that would be something that I would love, that we were gonna do in retirement, but then we were like, “Let’s do it now,” um, partly because, like, now we have our kids. But also I, I look at, you know, kind of my parents and, you know, my dad turns 80 this year.
Like, they’re not driving a big RV around. Like, it’s hard to get around, um, just physically. So, like, you’re kind of talking about the fi- family dynamics ’cause that’s kind of the, the space and time that you’re at with your, with your family. But if you, if you extrapolate that to retirement, like, you know, you’re walking because you wanna spend quality time with your wife, but also because it’s good for your health, right?
And, you know, hopefully that, that translates to, like, longevity, but, like, nothing’s guaranteed, right? Nothing’s guaranteed. So, like- The, I think the point that I’m trying to make [00:43:00] is, like, all we have is the now, right? We plan for the future, but we’re not guaranteed anything in the future. So, you know, and I think that it kinda goes back to life plan, and it’s like, you know, if there is something, you know, if we a- if I asked you, like, “Hey, today is your last day on Earth,” like, you know, “What did you miss?
What did you not get to become?” And there’s something that immediately pops into your mind that you’re like, “I’ve always wanted to do… I, I’ve always wanted to see the Grand Canyon.” I’m like, “Don’t book that. Like, book that now. Do it now.” Um, because there is no guarantee, whether it’s, you know, waiting for a sabbatical, whatever.
Like, do it, do it now. So, you know, I, I think it is an interesting, you know, it’s an interesting conversation and probably one that I… Again, I think our, our experience will be different because I’ll, like, I don’t wanna say, like, I’m a, I’m kind of a lone ranger on my sabbatical, but I am. Because my, like, it doesn’t really affect Shay, um, because she has to work.
So, a lot of these conversations I’m just having with myself, uh, at the end of [00:44:00] it. Um, and again, I’m not gonna- Well, get used to it if you go on the silent retreat. Get used to that stuff. I know. I know. Or if I go somewhere she wants to go, I’ll get my own silent retreat when I get back. Um, so, you know, I, I, I think it’s a, I think it’s a good thing to reflect on because I think you’re You know, I think you’re taking stock of, like, what you have, and, you know, what you have is a captive audience with your four boys.
But that- Yeah … might not always be there. Now it’ll g- it’ll, it’ll, it’ll, it might go away, but it’ll come back, right? Um, so but I just, I just think it, it goes back to, like, the, you know, the intentional, the intentional way of how we live our lives, and I think a sabbatical is just a great, it’s a great thing to kinda throw into the mix, ’cause I think it gets you to ask a lot of important questions about, you know, your work, your meeting, your relationships- Yes
you know, where you’re at [00:45:00] today versus, you know, in a year, in five years, in 10 years, or when you retire. Um, so yeah, those are great, great questions. One of the other connections, I wanna talk about objections here in a little bit, um, for at least a few, few minutes. But one, one of the other insights I had thinking about this as a window into retirement is, like, I don’t think retirement is going to be nor needs to be very expensive.
Like I, I was journaling after the sabbatical of, like, the top memories and moments I had from it, right? It was the– It was playing the game in the pool. It was going for walks. It was, um, you know, wiffle ball, uh, w- with the boys in the backyard. And there were some expenses, like we went to baseball games and hotels, and, like, just like retirement, I think like, yeah, we’d love to do some travel, and there’s gonna be some big expenses.
But it feels like it’s, it’s the relationships, right? It’s the connection. It’s the time. Um, you know, small expense of, like, riding go-karts in Niagara Falls was one of our favorite, [00:46:00] like, moments made in the mi… Like, cost, but not, like, huge cost. And I think it was just a good reminder, like, as we think about retirement and nest eggs and what we need and, you know, especially for those that are listening that are maybe over-saving.
We’ve talked about that before. Like, at the expense of today, I was like, “I don’t think it’s gonna take a lot, actually, you know, overall for that.” So, um, yeah, that’s something else. I was gonna ask, though, I was gonna ask you, though, about that. Like, now that you’re kind of through, I think the b- the, one of the big expenses you talked about is, like, baseball tickets, right?
Now that you’re through that and on the other side of that- Um, like, do you think that how you feel is kind of more of a, a result of the fact that you’ve earmarked those dollars, put those dollars in a bucket for that purpose versus you just peeled it off from a bigger bucket and it’s like, okay, we’re gonna spend five grand or whatever it is on baseball tickets?
Right. Like, that’s a little bit more- Yeah … sticker shock. Like, do you think, like, again, we’re, we always talk about the financial plan, [00:47:00] you know, it comes back to the financial plan. But d- like, the way that you’re, that you’re talking about the expense of a sabbatical or, or the expense of not necessarily working, if we think about it that way from a retirement perspective, um, is that bec- did that go back to the plan?
Um- Yeah, I, I mean, I can honestly say, like, especially for somebody who has struggled at times with, like, frugality and, you know, kind of- Yeah … a scarcity mindset, it’s been a growth area for me. Like, I really didn’t think about money during the trip. Um, and I think it is exactly what you’re talking about.
Not I think, I know, right? So, you know, we, we had earmarked This is the kind of overall budget, like wasn’t gonna be very super restricted, but generally speaking, this is what we’re looking at, this is what we save for. And so when I was buying those tickets and, you know, like we took Jess’s parents to the Tigers game, her dad’s a big Tigers fan, and we wanted to sit, you know, close, so we sat fourth row.
And like, I didn’t even think twice about like clicking the button. It was like experience at that moment, right? Um, and then where there was other games where it’s like, “Hey, we, we like the White [00:48:00] Sox, but we’re not like in love with the White Sox. It’s the experience, like let’s get the cheaper tickets there, but we’re gonna splurge when we go to Wrigley, right?
Or we’re gonna do other things there.” And I think because they were defined in that, I mean, it was a bucket in Ally, right? It was a sabbatical bucket in our Ally account. Right. That really just allowed for the freedom, you know, to enjoy that experience. And I know for me, like going into retirement, we talk about the, um, trained behavior, the muscle you need to build to spend.
Like that to me is gonna be a critical piece of the puzzle. Like it, it doesn’t matter if there’s two or three or four million dollars, like I need to have those somewhat defined of like, hey, we’re gonna earmark 50 grand this year for vacations or family experiences or whatever. ‘Cause otherwise I’m just gonna be thinking about like what’s the opportunity cost, you know, of that.
Uh- Yeah. And then if the market goes down and, and then- Yeah … you don’t have the paycheck, like all that. Yeah, I’m, I’m with you. You know, I– it, it’s– I’m gonna make a comment that is, um, I see this with a lot of [00:49:00] clients. Um, and I, I get it ’cause I was definitely there and I, I’m still in there to a point. But, um, you know, we’re, we’re fresh off the World Cup, and I wa- I’ve been watching a lot of these videos of, you know, people that visit it from, from Europe or South America- Yeah
or whatever, and they’re– the basically the gist of the, of the video is like we owe the United States an apology. Like we, we understand now why half of Americans don’t have passports. It’s because you have everything here. Um, you know, the United States is kind of like Europe. You can go a plane ride away and be in a different country and, you know, uh, New York is very different than Kansas City.
Um, and you know, one of the things, you know, a lot of clients are like, “I wanna visit Ireland and I wanna visit Paris,” and I, I completely get that. But there’s so much here, um, to explore in our national parks and our cities and things like that. So kind of a [00:50:00] love letter to the United States. I do think it’s, it’s great to go out and see other cultures.
Um, but you know, I, I like to see clients who are like, “Hey, I wanna see this international city,” but like we’re working our way through the national parks- Yeah … or I wanna see Boston or- Yeah … or whatever. Um- You know, we’re, we’re just very fortunate to live in the country that we live in because we, there’s just so much diversity in terms of our food and cities and, you know, our natural beauty.
Um, and to your point, like, it doesn’t cost a lot. I mean, maybe it costs some money to get there, but it doesn’t cost a lot to go see the Grand Canyon, um, you know, or, or whatever. And I think it, it, it’s very in- indicative of, like, when we go through kind of the scripture plan meeting, goal-setting, a lot of the, the things that we’re talking about, it’s, it, it’s very money adjacent.
Money’s not the main thing. Um, now it’s important, right? But people are, people don’t often say, like, you know, if I say, “Hey, what is success like, like in the next 10 years?” People are not saying, [00:51:00] “I wanna retire with $4 million.” They’re saying, “I wanna experience this. I wanna keep my health. You know, I wanna feel like I’m making an impact in my community.”
And, like, if you actually break those down to the component parts, the dollars there aren’t necessarily astronomical in most cases. So to your point is, you know, it kind of goes back to the question of like how much is enough? And most people kind of stick their finger in there of like, “I think I’m okay,” or, “I think I’m on track.”
And for a lot of pharmacists, they want to see the numbers so we can model that. For some people, like my wife, she’s like, “Just tell me I’m okay. Thumbs up, thumbs down. And if I’m not, then, like, what do we need to do to be okay?” Um, and again, that goes back to the power of planning and, and, and doing that work.
Which is why, you know, to toot our own hone at the, uh, horn of the planning process, like we believe so firmly in like what we call script your plan, right? Which happens after we first go through the get organized step, understand where we are- Yeah … where we want to go, otherwise we’re developing a plan, [00:52:00] you know, and we’re shooting in the dark a little bit of where we’re, where we’re trying to go.
And I, I, I think th- this is where too digging a, a layer deeper too is, is really helpful, you know. As I mentioned this toward the beginning of the episode, but I think we started, Jess and I started the planning with this ideal of what should sabbatical be, right? So we, we kind of thought like, “Hey, we gotta do the Europe trip.”
We still want to do all of those things at some point. Yeah. Um, but then we, we slowed down and kind of beat that up and started to map out an itinerary, and then we got to this point of like for us, which would come up in the script your plan, like being with and around family to a point, right? But being with and around family like is really important, you know, to us.
And so how do we center the experiences around that? So our first two weeks we centered our travel around Jess’ family in Toledo. That was kind of our jumping point. Our second two weeks- Yeah … were in Buffalo. And, and we had a decent amount of things that were our own things as a family, but also, you know, that family was a key, you know, piece of that as well.
So I think that just, that plays [00:53:00] so well into retirement too. Like we talk about this nebulous concept of retirement with some arbitrary date and some arbitrary dollar amount, but like what does it look like, right? And what, what do we want? Why do we want it? And then how do we develop the rest of the plan really to support it and to get it in that direction?
Tim, let, let me ask your thought. I, I suspect there’s some, maybe, maybe more than some that are listening saying, “Well, well Tim and Jim, that’s great.” But like, I work for a, an employer that like, I ain’t getting a month off. You know, that’s not possible. Now, I’d push back a little bit on that. You know, several years ago we had Nick Ornella, uh, on the podcast, who works for Walgreens, who negotiated a year off, uh, with Walgreens, and he and I talked, it was way back on episode 79, about redefining retirement.
We’ll link to that in the show notes. And, you know, he essentially was, was able to do that because he was a valued employee, and you would think that in a large corporate structure, like negotiating that kind of time off, and he did that to travel the world, wouldn’t be possible, right? And so I think I [00:54:00] would first challenge, like if the objection is it’s not possible, like is it really not possible?
You know, have we explored that further? But, you know, whether it’s financial limitations, certainly there can be an expense, time limitations. We talk about activities, families. Like, does it have to be a month off, right? Because we, we’ve talked about this value of getting this peek into retirement before we get to retirement.
But, you know, are there other ways that we could potentially, you know, accomplish this? Or what, what are your thoughts on getting the benefits of what we’re talking about even if we can’t necessarily take a month off or two months off? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the, the greatest way to do it is, is have an employer fund it, like we- what we do, and again, we just feel passionate about this.
Um, but there are ways to kind of, you know, kind of meet in the middle. It could be, um, it could be stacking vacation or even, even parlaying that into like FMLA where, you know, they’re gonna hold your position but you’re not necessarily gonna be paid. Um, so I think there’s… Or you [00:55:00] negotiate it again, you know, with, with the employer.
I think, I think again, the best results is, is to unplug and have a month, couple months off. Like that, you know, especially if you’re trying to just take stock, reset, um, avoid burnout. But you know, it, it could be, it could be something where you’re unplugging for, you know, uh, a weekend each quarter, a, a long weekend, a three, four-day weekend.
You know, one of the things that I did, and I got- I’ve gotten away from, but I’ve encouraged the team, um, to do it, do this, is like take a Friday off every month. And maybe in the summer it’s like, you know, maybe one thing that I might experiment with this is take every Friday off in the summer- Yeah, a four-day week
for, you know, for a time and just see what that looks like. And again, I think, I think, you know, y- we, we know this, and I think again, the further we get away from work, I think the, the, the benefits can be there. But like a three-day weekend or a four-day weekend to really intentional with that time to reset.
You know, and I’ve been in [00:56:00] jobs, Tim, where You know, I feel like I work just to get to Friday, and then I just become a ghost for the weekend just to, like, recharge my batteries, and I can’t really do that as much now because, like, at that time I was, like, a bachelor and, you know, was just taking care of myself.
It’s harder with a family ’cause you’re just up and running and things like that. But, like, I just remember working to Friday, being a ghost just to kind of recharge my batteries, and then it’s like, “Oh, crap, it’s Sunday again.” So, like, part of me encouraging myself and the team to take is, like, I want them to get to Sunday and be like, “Okay, like, tomorrow’s Monday.
It’s, uh, it’s time to go to work, and I’m recharged, and I’m refreshed, and I’m ready to go,” and not, like, that Sunday dread. Um, you know, it could just be, like, a week where you’re just completely disconnected, and that could be from work, from screens, from, you know, scheduled events, everything. It’s just you are be- you are there.
You’re, you’re, you [00:57:00] exist. Um, like we talked about maybe just being creative with PTO. You know, a lot of employers do allow you to go into deficits. Obviously, there’s a pr- you know, there can be a problem if you, if you need to use that. You know, one of the things that I really like, and again, this is not necessarily a sabbatical, but, um, you know, we, we do a, a Friday every day where it’s just we clear the calendar and we’re just working on YFP stuff.
Like, you can do that where, you know, you take a Friday and it’s just… Maybe it’s just, like, wellness stuff. Get a massage, meditate, go swim, take a walk, take a hike. Like, you know, I think there’s a lot of studies that say, like, if you’re out in nature, like, life is just better. Um, cook a meal. Like, I think there…
And you can incorporate some of these, like, ingredients into your, you know, be more intentional, so kind of have a more of a sabbatical mindset without, you know, completely walking away for a month or two. Um, you know, probably this, this next one, um, is [00:58:00] So one of the things I see, and I, I alluded to a little bit before, um, just like, just being like, “Hey, 2027 is the year of no,” right?
So, you know- Amen … if you have a mission statement or a vision- Mm-hmm … and you are asked to do something that doesn’t add to that cup, to that mission sta- Like, you have to… And, and this is so hard for people to do, and I think over time you develop more of that muscle. But I’m not just talking about work, I’m talking about social stuff, um, kid activities, um, whatever.
Just the ability to say no and have space in your day-to-day to be able to breathe and reflect is so important, right? And it’s hard, right? Because again, we, we’ve talked about how pharmacists think, um, you know, y- you, you want, y- you… A lot of pharmacists become pharmacists because they wanna help people, and if you say no, it’s kind of like, hey, you’re not, you know, you’re, you’re, [00:59:00] you’re, you’re smacking that in the face.
So, um, but I think, I think I’ve had that conversation at nauseam with clients over the years of like, there’s just too much stuff. Um, and again, it’s not necessarily financial related, it’s more like you’re just burning out because you just have so much going on. Um, and then, you know, intentional recovery, recovery after busy season.
So like- I, I, I say this to my, my wife, like when we, whenever we do s- like Disney is the extreme. Like when we go and do Dis- my, my wife plans every minute. She knows rope drop and this and that, and like we get back and we do plan a day where we just like kind of chill in the middle of the vacation just for like, uh, like a park day where we’re just swimming in the pool.
But like when we get back from that vacation, I’m like, “I’m dead.” And I think if you, if I were to build in at least one day of like where I’m just maybe just going through email and nothing else or, or what, like that would probably be like a step in the right [01:00:00] direction. But when you ha- if you’re a pharmacist and you’re traveling a lot for work or conferences, like being super intentional to, to have time to recover from that I think is important.
I think just l- i- if not, I think it just leads into I’m burnt out, I’m, I’m exhausted. Um, so I think those are some ideas. I don’t know, Tim, if you had anything else that you would add, um, you know, as, in terms of like how do you, you know, if you can’t get that full block of time off, how, what, what would you do?
I think what I’m taking away from what you’re sharing, which are some great ideas, are like a month off, two months off, a year off. Like if it’s there, great. Yeah. That’s probably an extreme, you know, example. But if you’re feeling kind of, I think what a lot, I was feeling, you know, of just like it’s go, go, go, right?
It’s activities, it’s so forth. Like what are some small steps of like things you can do right now that begin to step in the right direction, right? So, hey, I’m not, I’m not checking email or working in [01:01:00] the evenings or on the weekends. Like is the weekend really a weekend? Right? Are the evening… ‘Cause even, like, I, I feel like I can get into that optimization.
I’ve shared this with you before where it’s like, well, I’m sitting out my son’s soccer practice, I might as well catch up on a few things. And, like, I’m fooling myself. There’s only so much energy that is available. I, I like to think about this as, like, a bucket, right? There’s a bucket of energy available in the day, and, like, I can always get one more thing done, but there’s a diminishing return of that, and it’s very different if I’m sitting out at a soccer practice with my phone away, no agenda, maybe reading some fiction or just looking at the clouds, versus I’m trying to, like, catch up on a bunch of things.
Like, I’m in the same spot for an hour. Those are two very, very different things. So, like, are there even some small structural changes that can allow… ‘Cause again, we’re talking about this window into retirement. We’re starting to kind of begin to think about or train ourselves of what does life look like outside of work, right?
What does life look like in a much more slowed down, [01:02:00] you know, version? So yeah, I think that’s great. If we can get long time off, extended weekends, maintenance days, all these things. But are there even small steps that we can take of, like, really shutting off work, you know, on the evenings or weekends or, or other times, and just really trying to be okay w- with some boredom, you know, along the way?
Yeah, and, you know, to piggyback on, on, uh, what you were saying is, like, I think, you know, when, when Liam first started hockey, I was trying to multitask and watching his hockey, but then going through email or, or whatever, and he’s like, “Hey, Dad, did you see that sick goal that I have?” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah,” but I was looking at a freaking email.
Like, I didn’t see it. And, like, part of me beats myself up about that. You know, not that, not that it’s like, you know, Gabe’s seven on the Stanley Cup, but, like, I wasn’t present. And, like, I’m there to be present and support him. I’m not there… Like, that email can wait. Um- And I think another thing that comes to mind, I’ve actually had a client very early on, um, you know, structure this.
She kind of came to me and she’s like, [01:03:00] “I don’t necessarily want to wait to retire. I just want to have, like, small retirements.” So, like, she’ll work, and she’ll have, like, breaks in her ca- like she’ll have like– She does, like, a lot of co- She was, she’s actually not a pharmacist, she’s a doctor. She has, like, contract work.
So she’ll work for two, three, four years, and then she’ll take, like, a year off, and then she just travels and does whatever, and then she gets another contract. Like, there are things in ph- pharmacies or, or there are different jobs in pharmacy that are maybe more conducive to that, you know, where you can kind of structure more.
You know, these are, she calls them mini retirements, but they’re like sabbaticals. Um- Could also be transitions of employment. Like, those could be other opportunities where, hey, and again, it’s gonna take some financial planning, of course, but, you know, if there’s a job transition coming up, like, instead of turning around, like, could you take, use that as a three-month gap, you know?
Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s one thing you can negotiate. A lot of employers are like, “Hey, can you start yesterday?” It’s like, “Actually, um, like I’d love to be able to start September [01:04:00] 1. I’m gonna take August and go do what I need to do.” Um, again, there’s some– But if, if you kn- like, again, it goes back to the plan. Like if you know, um, that that might be something that you do, and maybe, maybe we plus up your emergency fund or maybe we just have a bucket that we’re funding that is kind of the sabbatical bucket, so when we’re ready to take it, you know, we’re paying ourself that month’s paycheck because we know it’s gonna turn off for a month, and, you know, we’ll get it back.
But yeah, I think, I think, you know, a lot of, a lot of the conversation goes back to intentionality. It goes back to the plan. Um, you know, I think it goes back to retirement and work not being like a destination. It’s just a chapter in the book, right? And, um, I think if we look at it as a destination, I, I think, I think we’re gonna be sorely disappointed, to be completely honest.
Um, because I think that that shine rubs off after a while, and you’re like, “Okay, what am I doing?” Um, or, or, “Why didn’t I do this when I was [01:05:00] 45 versus 65?” Um, maybe I’m, I’m maybe not as, not as able-bodied, that type of thing, so. Great stuff. I think that’s a great place to end. And, um, you know, if there’s o-one takeaway, hopefully that we’re challenging ourselves with, challenging you with as well, is, you know, what can we be doing today, right?
To start thinking about designing, experimenting, living our rich life today, while we also, of course, continue to plan, you know, for the future as we, we always do. So Tim, great stuff. Uh, we’ll, we’ll be back at it here in a couple weeks. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Scripted Wealth: Money and Meaning for Pharmacists.
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